Author Topic: Derived relationships in Archi 4 gone?  (Read 3312 times)

icyjamie

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Derived relationships in Archi 4 gone?
« on: November 18, 2016, 13:01:38 PM »
Hello

Will the functionality concerning derived relations dissapear in Archi 4? In the current beta, there is no trace of it anymore.

Kind regards,

James

Phil Beauvoir

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Re: Derived relationships in Archi 4 gone?
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2016, 13:04:30 PM »
I had to remove it for the new version. It needs to be re-done at some point with a better algorithm and UI.

Phil
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icyjamie

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Re: Derived relationships in Archi 4 gone?
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2016, 13:22:18 PM »
I guess that could be one of the Neo4J use cases, because it excels at path finding, route algorithms...

bebran

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Re: Derived relationships in Archi 4 gone?
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2017, 15:04:13 PM »
Hi,

Thanks for the great work being done in Archi 4.
Are there any plans to have the derived relations included in the final release of Archi 4 and when can we expect to see the release (currently at beta '8')?

/Bent

Phil Beauvoir

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Re: Derived relationships in Archi 4 gone?
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2017, 15:12:36 PM »
Hi,

Thanks for the great work being done in Archi 4.
Are there any plans to have the derived relations included in the final release of Archi 4 and when can we expect to see the release (currently at beta '8')?

/Bent

Hi, the calculation of derived relations as in Archi 3 was not perfect, in fact it was not very good. The plan is to distinguish between derived and core relations somehow in an Archi 4.x release.

I'm just waiting for the new updated relationships matrix to be agreed, and the Open Exchange Format to settle down and then I will do a "full" release - so not long now.

Phil
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objective1

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Re: Derived relationships in Archi 4 gone?
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2017, 15:02:21 PM »
bump on an older thread...

Now that (in theory) the relationships have been resolved in Archimate 3.0.1, is there a plan to revisit the derived relationships in Archi?

Phil Beauvoir

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Re: Derived relationships in Archi 4 gone?
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2017, 15:15:29 PM »
Do you have a clear idea what the feature should be?

One possibility is to distinguish between core and derived relations in the UI (palette, etc).

As for calculating them, I personally don't want to try that again. ;-)
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objective1

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Re: Derived relationships in Archi 4 gone?
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2017, 16:31:08 PM »
Clear is a relative term  ;-)

what i am looking for is a way for relationships from contained or supertyped elements to be optionally propagated to their containers or subtypes.  The modelling problem i would like to solve is to be able to show more abstract viewpoints without losing relevant relationships when containers don't show all the contained elements, or show more specific viewpoints when specific subtypes are shown that inherit supertype relationships.

Those are the most obvious items to start with....  i suspect there is a slippery slope to the extent of derived relationships supported by the spec. 

Jean-Baptiste Sarrodie

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Re: Derived relationships in Archi 4 gone?
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2017, 19:47:41 PM »
Hi,

what i am looking for is a way for relationships from contained or supertyped elements to be optionally propagated to their containers or subtypes.
[...]
Those are the most obvious items to start with....  i suspect there is a slippery slope to the extent of derived relationships supported by the spec. 

The point is that what you describe does not match derivation rules defined in the standard (but could be useful though).

One possibility is to distinguish between core and derived relations in the UI (palette, etc).

The issue is that we in fact have 2 kind of derived relationships: the one that you use without having modeled the detailed "path", and the one that match a "path" between several elements in your model.

The first is interresting for beginners that often don't understand what derivations are and could be warned by Archi when using them.

The latest is interrested because this means one has decided (as often) to model things at several abstraction level. In this case Archi could help link the list of relationship from the "path" and the derived relationship, making sure that if a relationship is deleted, the derived one is deleted too.

Regards,

JB
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objective1

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Re: Derived relationships in Archi 4 gone?
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2017, 01:44:37 AM »
we do in fact have the later case...  for example where we want to create a view that shows application interactions and data elements that are accessed.  My examples were starting with what i thought were the easiest cases   ..  funny that you point out that those cases are in fact not what derivations were intended to support...